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Search results for omicron,806 in Adler number:
Headword:
*ou)de\n
pro\s
to\n
*dio/nuson
Adler number: omicron,806
Translated headword: nothing to do with Dionysos; nothing to do with Dionysus
Vetting Status: high
Translation: Certain people exclaimed this after
Epigenes of Sicyon[1] had composed a tragedy in honour of Dionysus; hence the saying. But the following [is] better. Formerly, when writing in honour of Dionysus they used to compete with these [compositions], which also used to be called
satyrika.[2] But later on, having progressed to writing tragedies, they turned gradually to myths and historical subjects, no longer with Dionysus in mind.[3] Hence they also exclaimed this. And Chamaileon[4] in
On Thespis relates similar things. Theaitetos,[5] however, in
On Sayings says that the painter
Parrhasius[6] when competing at Corinth painted the most beautiful Dionysus. Those who viewed both the works of his competitors, which he left far behind, and the Dionysus of
Parrhasius exclaimed: What have they to do with Dionysus? [It is an adage] applied to those who speak foolishly, not saying what is appropriate in the circumstances.[7]
And elsewhere:[8] "he said Koroibos[9] was a clever Odysseus,[10] despite providing no instance to substantiate this.[11] You are leading the dog to the manger and to Dionysus you bring nothing."[12]
Greek Original:*ou)de\n pro\s to\n *dio/nuson: *)epige/nous tou= *sikuwni/ou tragw|di/an ei)s to\n *dio/nuson poih/santos, e)pefw/nhsa/n tines tou=to: o(/qen h( paroimi/a. be/ltion de\ ou(/tws: to\ pro/sqen ei)s to\n *dio/nuson gra/fontes tou/tois h)gwni/zonto, a(/per kai\ *saturika\ e)le/geto: u(/steron de\ metaba/ntes ei)s to\ tragw|di/as gra/fein kata\ mikro\n ei)s mu/qous kai\ i(stori/as e)tra/phsan, mhke/ti tou= *dionu/sou mnhmoneu/ontes: o(/qen tou=to kai\ e)pefw/nhsan. kai\ *xamaile/wn e)n tw=| *peri\ *qe/spidos ta\ paraplh/sia i(storei=, *qeai/thtos de\ e)n tw=| *peri\ paroimi/as *parra/sio/n fhsin to\n zwgra/fon a)gwnizo/menon para\ *korinqi/ois poih=sai *dio/nuson ka/lliston: tou\s de\ o(rw=ntas ta/ te tw=n a)ntagwnistw=n e)/rga, a(\ kata\ polu\ e)lei/peto, kai\ to\n tou= *parrasi/ou *dio/nuson, e)pifwnei=n, ti/ pro\s to\n *dio/nuson; e)pi\ tw=n mh\ ta\ prosh/konta toi=s u(pokeime/nois fluarou/ntwn. kai\ au)=qis: to\n *ko/roibon *)odusse/a fh/sas ei)=nai to\n polu/tropon. kai/toi mh\ pro\s tou=to para/deigma fe/rwn, th=| fa/tnh| prosa/geis to\n ku/na kai\ pro\s to\n *dio/nuson a)/geis ou)de/n.
Notes:
[1] See R.A.S. Seaford in OCD(4) s.v.
Epigenes. For
Epigenes as the first writer of tragedies see
theta 282, s.v.
Thespis.
Herodotus 5.67.5 mentions choruses performed at Sicyon in honour of Dionysus, which were instituted by its tyrant Cleisthenes. See web address 1 below.
[2]
ta\ saturika/ [dra/mata]. Compare
ta\ fallika/ at
Aristotle,
Poetics 1449a. See web address 2 below.
[3] The distinction, albeit somewhat blurred, is between plots involving mythical or legendary subjects and those based on historical subjects such as
Aeschylus'
Persians.
Plutarch,
Moralia 615A, attributed the introduction of such themes to
Phrynichus and
Aeschylus, and in this context quoted the present saying. See also
Zenobius 5.40.
[4] From
Heraclea Pontica (b. c.350 BCE). He was a pupil of
Aristotle; see generally C.B.R. Pelling in OCD(4) s.v. '
Chamaeleon'. This is his fr. 38 Wehrli = 48 Giordano = TGrF 1 T18.
[5] Not known.
[6]
Parrhasius of
Ephesus. A well-known painter of the fifth century BCE, who also wrote works on painting. See G. Lippold, 'Parrasios(3)', in RE 18.4, cols.1874-1880;
Parrhasius' painting of Dionysus is discussed in col.1874 there. See also OCD(4) s.v. (pp.1084-5).
Xenophon,
Memorabilia 3.10.1-5, introduces
Parrhasius in conversation with Socrates. See web address 3 below.
Strabo 8.6.2 (quoting
Polybius 39.2 Paton) attributed this famous painting to
Aristides of
Thebes, who was active c.360 BCE.
[7] Up to this point the Suda closely follows
Photius,
Lexicon omicron618 Theodoridis; cf.
Zenobius 5.40 and
Apostolius s.v.
ou)de\n pro\s to\n *Dio/nuson.
[8] Adler suggests (on no discernible basis) that what follows be attributed to
Eunapius.
[9] Koroibos was a Phrygian, the son of Mygdon and Anaximene. He arrived at
Troy the day before the city fell, intending to marry Cassandra. He boasted that he would repulse the Achaeans but was himself killed by Neoptolemos or Diomedes [
Author,
Myth] when the city fell. See Quintus of
Smyrna,
The fall of Troy 13.168-177, who calls him
nh/pios;
Pausanias 10.27.1. His reputation for stupidity was such that it was said of him that he would count the waves of the sea, hence the proverbial expression "more stupid than Koroibos". See
Zenobius 4.58; Diogenian 5.56; Eitrem; Marcovich p.50;
kappa 2113.
[10] In contrast with Koroibos and his reputation for stupidity, Odysseus is of course proverbially clever,
polu/tropos. In English we might say, 'Oh yes, and Koroibos was a clever Odysseus!'. That would signify that a person was talking nonsense, which is what the saying "nothing to do with Dionysus" had come to mean.
[11] Literally 'despite not providing an example in respect of this'. Adler's punctuates with a period after
polu/tropon but a comma seems better (and a period at the end, i.e. with a fresh start at 'You are leading').
[12] The saying derives from the fable attributed to Aesop of the dog in the manger (
eta 187,
kappa 2729). For the proverb [no. 74] see B.E. Perry, [
Aesopica Urbana: U.Illinois Pr., 1952, pp.276, 702. See web address 3 below. For other uses of this saying see Lucian,
Timon 14;
Greek Anthology 12.236. There seem to be two separate sayings quoted here, although it is possible that they constitute a single saying. If the latter, the saying would refer to perverse behaviour, and there would be a pun on
a)/gw. However, Greek would not normally use the simple conjunction
kai/ to make the contrast.
References:
Eitrem, S. Koroibos(3) in RE 11,2 col.1421
Marcovich, M. 'Aelian, Varia Historia 13.15', Ziva Antika 26(1976), 49-51
Nothing to do with Dionysus? : Athenian drama in its social context. J.J. Winkler & F. Zeitlin (eds.), Princeton U.P., 1990
Pickard-Cambridge, A.W. Dithyramb, Tragedy and Comedy, 2nd ed. rev. T.B.L. Webster. Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1962, 85, 124-126
Pohlenz, M. 'Das Satyrspiel und Pratinas von Phleius', in Kleine Schriften Hildesheim: Olms, 1965, Bd. II, 473-496 [= Nachrichten der Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu Göttingen, Philologisch-historische Klasse, 1927, 298ff.
Associated internet addresses:
Web address 1,
Web address 2,
Web address 3
Keywords: aetiology; art history; biography; comedy; definition; epic; historiography; mythology; poetry; proverbs; stagecraft; tragedy
Translated by: Tony Natoli on 24 July 2001@18:12:26.
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